Back on March 22 of this year, I wrote a blog offering my opinion on why Japanese women liked gaijin men - kind of a tit-for-tat blog entry to book-end a piece or two on why foreign men are ga-ga over Japanese women.
You can read my blog on the former: HERE
The reason why I am revisiting this blog is due to an email from a gent (I assume) going by the handle of ArmChairPhil, would wrote in under the Comments section asking an absolutely brilliant question, after making some interesting points.
He asked me: "Do you think you would have enjoyed the same level of success (with Japanese women) if you had been an indian from india rather than a Canadian of Indian origin?"
I began writing a response back to him, and realized that I was soon over 775 words, and had more to say. I really must learn to be more brief.
Still, for a blog of mine, that ain't half bad. I decided against placing my answer in the Comments section.
Here's my response to Phil's probing question:
Hi ACP,
Damn fine question, and one I have wondered about - certainly while writing that blog.
I still think it has more to do with personality rather than country of origin.
And availability.
There were many Indians in the area thanks to the Asian Institute where people came from other countries - India, Indonesia, Pakistan (those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head)), but they weren't in the public eye like I was.
While very nice folks, they were there to learn their trade (farming) - I was there... geez, to teach, internationalize and have fun. To work. Not be a student. I had money. They did not. Certainly not at my level. Did they fraternize? no idea.
But... if I had been an Indian from India - maybe... I hate saying this, but even here in Canada, having an Indian-English accent makes one stand out more as a foreigner. I do not have anything but a neutral North American accent. I sound (god, it sounds stupid), Canadian.
I've never been to India, and while born in England I know far more about Canada and Japan than of the country I am descended from. I can speak English, some Japanese, a little French, and maybe two words of Hindi.
That still doesn't answer your question, though.
I think that if I was still me, but born and raised in India, I would still have had my measure of success (none of my cousins living in India have the thick Indian accent (a la Peter Sellers in The Party). And, to be honest, they fit in quite easily here in Canada when they visited last as teenagers (30 years ago or more). They had personality. I think that trumps all. I still would have had the same looks (more or less). My diet may have been a tad different. My education different. my likes and dislikes a tad different, but I still would have had the same upbringing of respect for others and their culture. I hope I would have had the same willingness to try to fit in. So... yeah! I think I might have had the same level of success.
That's me, however. I know you talked of caste et al. My mom's Catholic, my dad Protestant. hardly typical religious backgrounds in India. But, my uncle Harold was indeed the conductor of the New Delhi Orchestra. Caste? My folks didn't believe in that crap. They treated everybody equally, even if they weren't treated equally. But that's also why they wanted to leave - to start a family in an environ where their kid(s) would have the best chance of being successful in this world. It's why I am still in Canada.
Sad, but true, I've never been to India. I might like to go to see the sites - I love history, as you can tell from these blogs, so I would learn as much as possible while there. I don't care what a person looks like - I've dated every color, shape and size of woman from every continent (I assume she was a nun from Antarctica, and not a penguin!) (kidding), and I've come to one constant - even as a virgin... I want to date a woman who is as smart or smarter than me. It doesn't always work out that way, but that was my goal. Being an idiot, it was easy to find women.
You are correct about the media stereotypes, (my dad in the late 60s early 70s was one of those Indian computer geniuses that created a stereotype), but my brother and I blow it out of the water by being stupid in math and excellent in English and communications. I've worked in a call center in Toronto - but trust me, I sound like your typical Canadian, but with a voice and demeanor that can sell freezers to Inuit (Eskimo). I think that Indian folks are marrying outside the 'race' in an effort (consciously or subconsciously) to fit in. For most of us here in Canada, we WERE the minority. There were ever only one, two or three of us 'Indian-looking' kids at a school. I have had many friends who never hung out with a non-white kid until they met me in College! I heard this one once: "You're different. You don't act like a stereotype."
Thanks, I think... but I know what they mean. It's why I learned more about hockey than any sane person should - to fit in.
Liking White women? That's all I had around me growing up. When in Rome, and all that...but that was never a criteria. They had to like me... and women did after getting to know me a little bit. But, putting aside ego, I have no idea why.
So, to sum up, I think I would have had the same 'success' with Japanese women regardless of where I was from, as long as I was able to have to the same personality (and the same looks).
I don't believe the Japanese, and that means the Japanese women, cared one way or the other. I
may have been well-known in my town when I arrived, but I am unsure if everyone knew of me. And even if they did, they may have known I was a teacher from Canada,but I sure don't look like your typical Canadian stereotype. Whatever that is. Maybe a puck-slapping, maple syrup chugging hoser who says 'eh' a lot. But how would that be appealing to a Japanese woman - or any woman for that matter.
I knew plenty of Canadians and Americans men who didn't have my level of success with women while in Japan. Or any success, for that matter.
I actually used to be a very shy person. Extremely shy. I still am to a certain degree, but that shyness evaporates the moment someone says 'hello' to me, or I say 'hello' to them. Then my natural personality comes out. I have no idea what I'm going to say, but do react well when things are said to me.
My views of the world are hardly extreme, and I believe everyone has the right to their opinion even if I don't agree with it - but I am willing to listen and hear why they believe what they believe.
In Japan, it was my acceptance of Japanese culture and idiosyncrasies. There was no right or wrong, it just was. I accepted it. I expressed my opinion of the way things were in Canada, but I never ever said the Japanese were wrong.by expressing my view on things, but not judging them, I allowed the Japanese to see a view and make their own minds up regarding whether or not that was something they wanted to pursue. That's how you internationalize. You can't force people to change. They must want to.
So... yes... I think when you put it all together, even if I was of Indian-descent, I would have done all right with the Japanese women, and women in general.
Of course - you still have to put yourself in a position to succeed. Would I have gone to Japan if I was in India? No. It is doubtful that the same opportunity would have arisen to allow me to succeed and get onto the program (JET).
Traveling to Japan on my own to teach - I wouldn't have been promoted so highly by the city and media (as most JETs are, even if they are not aware of it). My true personality may not have been allowed to blossom, and I may not be the mostly gregarious person I am today.
So... whatever the reason, being Canadian, peaking at the right time emotionally, sexually, intellectually, it led to my above-average ability to chat up anyone in Japan.
Being Canadian rather than Indian as a means to my success? In my case - yes. But one still needs other tools to make a successful translation.
ArmChairPhil - thank you for writing in. I hope you stick around and read other articles on Japan, and I hope YOU get a chance to travel to Japan.
While it is true that all I wanted before arriving in Japan was to get laid - My goal in Japan was to survive. I had never lived on my own before, and I didn't know how to cook, clean, shop... or anything. Quickly learning to do those things by admitting my weaknesses and being taught by people in Japan helped. Being open minded about everything I was told was a blessing. That's good parenting. Of course, one has to listen to the parenting.
Stuff happens. I never planned to have sex. I wanted to, but I had no plan. I was deathly shy before arriving there, but no one in Japan knew I was shy, so I reinvented myself to how I wanted to be. My sense of humor came out and was on display for everyone. I looked like an ass to many an AET, but to the Japanese, I looked like someone they could have fun with. The kids sure appreciated it. But I also knew how to be serious. I told people how I really felt. And they helped me. And I helped them. I made myself available by doing damn near everything anyone asked of that first year in Japan. I was tiring, but exhilarating.
Even then, I thought to myself there is every possible chance that this may be my one and only chance to be in this part if the world - so don't waste the opportunity.
Now, 20 years later, I was right. I haven't been afforded (double entendre) the opportunity. to go back. I want to, and one day I will. With my son. But I want to make sure he's old enough to really get it. At least the little bugger likes sushi!
Thanks for writing! I do read ever letter of comment, and even if I don't respond, I read it. And appreciate it!
I'm going to have a glass of shochu (fermented rice wine) and count my blessing for being so lucky. And the best part is - tomorrow is another day.
Cheers
Andrew Joseph
You can read my blog on the former: HERE
The reason why I am revisiting this blog is due to an email from a gent (I assume) going by the handle of ArmChairPhil, would wrote in under the Comments section asking an absolutely brilliant question, after making some interesting points.
He asked me: "Do you think you would have enjoyed the same level of success (with Japanese women) if you had been an indian from india rather than a Canadian of Indian origin?"
I began writing a response back to him, and realized that I was soon over 775 words, and had more to say. I really must learn to be more brief.
Still, for a blog of mine, that ain't half bad. I decided against placing my answer in the Comments section.
Here's my response to Phil's probing question:
Hi ACP,
Damn fine question, and one I have wondered about - certainly while writing that blog.
I still think it has more to do with personality rather than country of origin.
And availability.
There were many Indians in the area thanks to the Asian Institute where people came from other countries - India, Indonesia, Pakistan (those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head)), but they weren't in the public eye like I was.
While very nice folks, they were there to learn their trade (farming) - I was there... geez, to teach, internationalize and have fun. To work. Not be a student. I had money. They did not. Certainly not at my level. Did they fraternize? no idea.
But... if I had been an Indian from India - maybe... I hate saying this, but even here in Canada, having an Indian-English accent makes one stand out more as a foreigner. I do not have anything but a neutral North American accent. I sound (god, it sounds stupid), Canadian.
I've never been to India, and while born in England I know far more about Canada and Japan than of the country I am descended from. I can speak English, some Japanese, a little French, and maybe two words of Hindi.
That still doesn't answer your question, though.
I think that if I was still me, but born and raised in India, I would still have had my measure of success (none of my cousins living in India have the thick Indian accent (a la Peter Sellers in The Party). And, to be honest, they fit in quite easily here in Canada when they visited last as teenagers (30 years ago or more). They had personality. I think that trumps all. I still would have had the same looks (more or less). My diet may have been a tad different. My education different. my likes and dislikes a tad different, but I still would have had the same upbringing of respect for others and their culture. I hope I would have had the same willingness to try to fit in. So... yeah! I think I might have had the same level of success.
That's me, however. I know you talked of caste et al. My mom's Catholic, my dad Protestant. hardly typical religious backgrounds in India. But, my uncle Harold was indeed the conductor of the New Delhi Orchestra. Caste? My folks didn't believe in that crap. They treated everybody equally, even if they weren't treated equally. But that's also why they wanted to leave - to start a family in an environ where their kid(s) would have the best chance of being successful in this world. It's why I am still in Canada.
Sad, but true, I've never been to India. I might like to go to see the sites - I love history, as you can tell from these blogs, so I would learn as much as possible while there. I don't care what a person looks like - I've dated every color, shape and size of woman from every continent (I assume she was a nun from Antarctica, and not a penguin!) (kidding), and I've come to one constant - even as a virgin... I want to date a woman who is as smart or smarter than me. It doesn't always work out that way, but that was my goal. Being an idiot, it was easy to find women.
You are correct about the media stereotypes, (my dad in the late 60s early 70s was one of those Indian computer geniuses that created a stereotype), but my brother and I blow it out of the water by being stupid in math and excellent in English and communications. I've worked in a call center in Toronto - but trust me, I sound like your typical Canadian, but with a voice and demeanor that can sell freezers to Inuit (Eskimo). I think that Indian folks are marrying outside the 'race' in an effort (consciously or subconsciously) to fit in. For most of us here in Canada, we WERE the minority. There were ever only one, two or three of us 'Indian-looking' kids at a school. I have had many friends who never hung out with a non-white kid until they met me in College! I heard this one once: "You're different. You don't act like a stereotype."
Thanks, I think... but I know what they mean. It's why I learned more about hockey than any sane person should - to fit in.
Liking White women? That's all I had around me growing up. When in Rome, and all that...but that was never a criteria. They had to like me... and women did after getting to know me a little bit. But, putting aside ego, I have no idea why.
So, to sum up, I think I would have had the same 'success' with Japanese women regardless of where I was from, as long as I was able to have to the same personality (and the same looks).
I don't believe the Japanese, and that means the Japanese women, cared one way or the other. I
may have been well-known in my town when I arrived, but I am unsure if everyone knew of me. And even if they did, they may have known I was a teacher from Canada,but I sure don't look like your typical Canadian stereotype. Whatever that is. Maybe a puck-slapping, maple syrup chugging hoser who says 'eh' a lot. But how would that be appealing to a Japanese woman - or any woman for that matter.
I knew plenty of Canadians and Americans men who didn't have my level of success with women while in Japan. Or any success, for that matter.
I actually used to be a very shy person. Extremely shy. I still am to a certain degree, but that shyness evaporates the moment someone says 'hello' to me, or I say 'hello' to them. Then my natural personality comes out. I have no idea what I'm going to say, but do react well when things are said to me.
My views of the world are hardly extreme, and I believe everyone has the right to their opinion even if I don't agree with it - but I am willing to listen and hear why they believe what they believe.
In Japan, it was my acceptance of Japanese culture and idiosyncrasies. There was no right or wrong, it just was. I accepted it. I expressed my opinion of the way things were in Canada, but I never ever said the Japanese were wrong.by expressing my view on things, but not judging them, I allowed the Japanese to see a view and make their own minds up regarding whether or not that was something they wanted to pursue. That's how you internationalize. You can't force people to change. They must want to.
So... yes... I think when you put it all together, even if I was of Indian-descent, I would have done all right with the Japanese women, and women in general.
Of course - you still have to put yourself in a position to succeed. Would I have gone to Japan if I was in India? No. It is doubtful that the same opportunity would have arisen to allow me to succeed and get onto the program (JET).
Traveling to Japan on my own to teach - I wouldn't have been promoted so highly by the city and media (as most JETs are, even if they are not aware of it). My true personality may not have been allowed to blossom, and I may not be the mostly gregarious person I am today.
So... whatever the reason, being Canadian, peaking at the right time emotionally, sexually, intellectually, it led to my above-average ability to chat up anyone in Japan.
Being Canadian rather than Indian as a means to my success? In my case - yes. But one still needs other tools to make a successful translation.
ArmChairPhil - thank you for writing in. I hope you stick around and read other articles on Japan, and I hope YOU get a chance to travel to Japan.
While it is true that all I wanted before arriving in Japan was to get laid - My goal in Japan was to survive. I had never lived on my own before, and I didn't know how to cook, clean, shop... or anything. Quickly learning to do those things by admitting my weaknesses and being taught by people in Japan helped. Being open minded about everything I was told was a blessing. That's good parenting. Of course, one has to listen to the parenting.
Stuff happens. I never planned to have sex. I wanted to, but I had no plan. I was deathly shy before arriving there, but no one in Japan knew I was shy, so I reinvented myself to how I wanted to be. My sense of humor came out and was on display for everyone. I looked like an ass to many an AET, but to the Japanese, I looked like someone they could have fun with. The kids sure appreciated it. But I also knew how to be serious. I told people how I really felt. And they helped me. And I helped them. I made myself available by doing damn near everything anyone asked of that first year in Japan. I was tiring, but exhilarating.
Even then, I thought to myself there is every possible chance that this may be my one and only chance to be in this part if the world - so don't waste the opportunity.
Now, 20 years later, I was right. I haven't been afforded (double entendre) the opportunity. to go back. I want to, and one day I will. With my son. But I want to make sure he's old enough to really get it. At least the little bugger likes sushi!
Thanks for writing! I do read ever letter of comment, and even if I don't respond, I read it. And appreciate it!
I'm going to have a glass of shochu (fermented rice wine) and count my blessing for being so lucky. And the best part is - tomorrow is another day.
Cheers
Andrew Joseph
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